[Individual-members-EL] changes to EL statute

[joseph dureuil]

Dear Comrade,

I am not sure I got your mail, anyway I think you are right, it is a great 
idea to discuss and vote by yahoo group, that's why I will join.

Best regards,

Joseph Dureuil

>From: "Josè María Miotto" <josemiotto at gmail.com>
>To: "joseph dureuil" <upsetvoice at hotmail.com>
>CC: udeike at web.de, individual-members-el at listi.jpberlin.de
>Subject: Re: [Individual-members-EL] changes to EL statute
>Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 14:34:24 -0300
>
>Almost forgot
>the address is
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ELmembers/
>
>Jose Miotto
>
>On 9/26/06, Josè María Miotto <josemiotto at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Hi you all. I made a yahoo group in order to get a more organised
>>discussion some days ago, I send you all a mail, but no one subscribed to
>>it, maybe you didn't get the mail. Anyway, this group have no restriction 
>>to
>>subscription, so all individual members interested in their representants
>>can register to it, and you can very easily organise an anonymous 
>>votation.
>>This polls can be used also the get other general information. And also 
>>the
>>group have forums in which any person who wants to be elected can post his
>>ideas, program, whatever. The easiness (is that the word for "being 
>>easy"?)
>>and the security of the method is evident, and all the elction options are
>>configurable to our needs (that we have to decide...). Anyway, if we 
>>choose
>>this system, we would need to send a e-mail to all individual members to
>>acknowledge them about it.
>>
>>best regards
>>
>>Jose Miotto
>>
>>On 9/25/06, joseph dureuil <upsetvoice at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Dear Comrades,
>> >
>> > here are my comments and questions about the email voting and the
>> > proposal
>> > of changing statute
>> >
>> > For me, the justifications of our proposed motions are great and I am
>> > sure
>> > they could convince the congress members. Anyway, I think they could be
>> > a
>> > problem for them to trust unknow people, we should perhaps ask each
>> > individual member to write a little presentation of her or himself
>> > explaining how she or he came to the party and why (it could be made as
>> > a
>> > kind of petition of us individual members asking the right to be
>> > represented
>> > in the congress). It could be a way to be more "concrete" for these
>> > people.
>> > I would like to ask the others if they would agree with this idea.
>> >
>> >
>> > Also, I read the idea about email elections. For me it should be the
>> > better
>> > way to get our representants. Actually, we don't know eachother but we
>> > could
>> > discuss and exchange ideas by mail without any problem of distrust in
>> > complete transparence and honesty, so why not also vote by mails? 
>>Anyway
>> >
>> > some problems are staying for me:
>> >
>> > 1) Who would be the candidates? We need to know them and what they
>> > propose
>> > for voting for one or the other, in fact it is a question of
>> > representation,
>> > so the better we ll know the different proposals, the better the vote
>> > will
>> > be.
>> >
>> > 2) How will we choose the so-called trustees?
>> >
>> > 3) Then we will need to prepare very well the modalities of voting (how
>> > long
>> > will last the e-elections? How many days will they be open? etc...).
>> >
>> > 4) Also there is a last problem: everybody will need to get the 
>>complete
>> > list of email adresses of people who have taken part to the vote, so
>> > that we
>> > should be sure that only individual members voted. At the same time the
>> > vote
>> > must stay secrete. Perhaps we could write already an email list of all
>> > individual members of our group and ask everybody after having voted to
>> > confirm by collective email to the others of the list that she or he 
>>has
>> >
>> > voted. On this way, everybody will be assured that the others have 
>>voted
>> > (of
>> > course without knowing for whom, which is a basic rule of democracy).
>> > For
>> > me, it will give more credibility to our vote and therefore
>> > representation.
>> >
>> > ...To resume, everybody would have to write three emails:
>> >
>> > the first to be on the list of people who will take part to the vote.
>> >
>> > the second to vote (following your idea of trustees and the rules you
>> > proposed plus the modalities we will have decided).
>> >
>> > The third, after having voted, would be a collective email to the other
>> > voting people confirming that they have voted
>> >
>> > Then, if our email voting process is a success, we could ask the
>> > chairman of
>> > the party to declare to the press that it is a real success of
>> > electronical
>> > democracy, the first email voting of the first transnational european
>> > party,
>> > the first european left party... (or something like that) in order to
>> > get
>> > the left party to be known and perhaps to attract new individual 
>>members
>> > asking for more social justice and democracy in European Union...
>> >
>> > best regards,
>> >
>> > Joseph Dureuil
>> >
>> >
>> > >From: Ulrich Deike < udeike at web.de>
>> > >To: individual-members-el at listi.jpberlin.de
>> > >Subject: [Individual-members-EL] changes to EL statute
>> > >Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2006 01:47:22 +0200
>> > >
>> > >Dear all,
>> > >
>> > >news from the EL secretary's office where I spoke to Helmut, EL
>> > secretary,
>> > >and Oliver about our 2 motions to the next EL-Congress.
>> > >
>> > >Despite their general support of the idea of giving individual members
>> > more
>> > >rights, they had some questions or doubts.
>> > >
>> > >1) First, how are we going to organise the delegation procedure for
>> > >Congress delegates once we have the right to elect delegates? Could an
>> > >electronic election work?, maybe like that:
>> > >
>> > >We name trustees from several countries who don't know each other
>> > >personally. They will get access (password) to a special e-mail 
>>account
>> > in
>> > >order to count the votes for the candidates. All individual members
>> > (who
>> > >are not organised in any member party) have the right to vote by
>> > sending an
>> > >email indicating already in the reference the name of the candidate
>> > they
>> > >vote. This way the trustees will just have to check the list of
>> > incoming
>> > >mails for the number of votes for each candidate, check that only the
>> > >authorised people send 1 mail. Finally the trustees will all publish 
>>at
>> >
>> > >about the same time the election results together with a list of the
>> > email
>> > >addresses of the people who sent a mail to the „election mailbox" in
>> > order
>> > >to avoid any trustee deleting an e-mail. This latter list, i.e. the
>> > number
>> > >of e-mails that have been cast into the „ballot", should be as high as
>> > the
>> > >sum of all votes. Do you think that would work?
>> > >
>> > >If not, please suggest other systems. If we have to meet physically
>> > >somewhere this could be expensive and time-consuming for some of us.
>> > >
>> > >2) Please find attached some minor changes to the statute amendments
>> > that
>> > >could possibly raise our chances to get the support of the Executive
>> > Board.
>> > >The member parties have agreed to reach every decision in the EL by
>> > >consensus, which makes things extremely complicated and slow. But we
>> > should
>> > >try to understand the concerns of some national parties about
>> > competition
>> > >between them and circles of individual members in their countries.
>> > However,
>> > >I still have hope.
>> > >I also added some justification remarks since we are not present when
>> > the
>> > >ExB meets to discuss our suggestions.
>> > >
>> > >Any comments/requests/wishes? Then please be quick. I'm going to hand
>> > in
>> > >the second draft to Helmut by Friday, 29th.
>> > >
>> > >Take care and keep your fingers crossed for this project
>> > >
>> > >Uli
>> > >
>> > 
>> >_______________________________________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> > ><< Mail23-9-06.doc >>
>> >
>> >
>> > >_______________________________________________
>> > >Individual-members-EL Mailingliste
>> > >JPBerlin - Politischer Provider
>> > >Individual-members-EL at listi.jpberlin.de
>> > > http://listi.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/individual-members-el
>> >
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>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Individual-members-EL Mailingliste
>> > JPBerlin - Politischer Provider
>> > Individual-members-EL at listi.jpberlin.de
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>> >
>>
>>

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