<html aria-label="message body"><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"></head><body style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div><div dir="auto" style="orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; widows: 2; overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Hi Rob,</div><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">This response misses the broader issue. As Professor Bernstein noted during the SSH WG discussions, current practices by WG Chairs are undermining active participation within the Working Group, specifically highlighting the points outlined as "2. Chairs sabotaging participation" and "3. Chairs sabotaging resolution of technical disputes" [1].</div><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">This observation has been confirmed through my personal experience in both the TLS and SSH Working Groups.</div><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Kind regards,</div><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;"><br></div><div dir="auto" style="overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Ken Kubota</div></div><br>____________________________________________________<br><br>Ken Kubota<br><a href="https://doi.org/10.4444/100" style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">https://doi.org/10.4444/100</a><br><br><br></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">[1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ssh/KwzbhHP-6cK4VSWT04mNv_cWyFI/</div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br></div><div style="caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-decoration: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br></div></div></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Am 15.10.2026 um 12:57 schrieb Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div>
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Hi Waqas,</div>
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I don't follow SEAT, and don't know this document or discussion, but I do understand the IETF process rules pretty well.</div>
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At that first data tracker link you provided you will see:</div>
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<div style="direction: ltr; font-size: 12pt;"><span style="font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">"</span><span style="font-family: Inter, system-ui, -apple-system, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, Noto Sans, Liberation Sans, Arial, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol, Noto Color Emoji; color: rgb(102, 77, 3); background-color: rgb(255, 243, 205); text-transform: none;">This
document is an Internet-Draft (I-D). Anyone may submit an I-D to the IETF. This I-D is
</span><span style="font-family: Inter, system-ui, -apple-system, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, Noto Sans, Liberation Sans, Arial, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol, Noto Color Emoji; color: rgb(102, 77, 3); background-color: rgb(255, 243, 205); font-weight: bolder; text-transform: none;">not
endorsed by the IETF</span><span style="font-family: Inter, system-ui, -apple-system, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, Noto Sans, Liberation Sans, Arial, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol, Noto Color Emoji; color: rgb(102, 77, 3); background-color: rgb(255, 243, 205); text-transform: none;"> and
has </span><span style="font-family: Inter, system-ui, -apple-system, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, Noto Sans, Liberation Sans, Arial, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol, Noto Color Emoji; color: rgb(102, 77, 3); background-color: rgb(255, 243, 205); font-weight: bolder; text-transform: none;">no
formal standing</span><span style="font-family: Inter, system-ui, -apple-system, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, Noto Sans, Liberation Sans, Arial, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol, Noto Color Emoji; color: rgb(102, 77, 3); background-color: rgb(255, 243, 205); text-transform: none;"> in
the </span><span style="font-family: Inter, system-ui, -apple-system, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, Noto Sans, Liberation Sans, Arial, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol, Noto Color Emoji; color: rgb(13, 110, 253); background-color: rgb(255, 243, 205); text-transform: none;"><a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc2026/" data-outlook-id="ae131f93-3d37-46ff-af1e-a8b89034128f" style="color: rgb(13, 110, 253);"><u>IETF
standards process</u></a></span><span style="font-family: Inter, system-ui, -apple-system, Segoe UI, Roboto, Helvetica Neue, Noto Sans, Liberation Sans, Arial, sans-serif, Apple Color Emoji, Segoe UI Emoji, Segoe UI Symbol, Noto Color Emoji; color: rgb(102, 77, 3); background-color: rgb(255, 243, 205); text-transform: none;">.</span><span style="font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">"</span></div>
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Unless the SEAT WG has adopted the document (and hence the name of the draft changes to draft-ietf-seat-early-attestation, then this is NOT an IETF document and hence it is incorrect to say that the SEAT WG is "working on it". The only status that this draft
has is that it is an idea from a set of authors which they would like the SEAT WG to consider. Anyone can submit a draft for consideration by the WG. Perhaps the authors will consider your patch, perhaps they won't. It is up to them since they are currently
solely responsible for the document, not the SEAT WG, nor the IETF.</div>
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Also worth seeing <a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wkumari-not-a-draft/" data-outlook-id="48a9c220-0e33-457e-adec-73cfb0bd4208">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-wkumari-not-a-draft/</a>.</div>
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Kind regards,</div>
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Rob</div>
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<b>From: </b>waqas.nawaz@vision4d.ai <waqas.nawaz@vision4d.ai><br>
<b>Date: </b>Thursday, 15 October 2026 at 11:11<br>
<b>To: </b>ietf@kenkubota.de <ietf@kenkubota.de><br>
<b>Cc: </b>ietf@ietf.org <ietf@ietf.org>; tls@ietf.org <tls@ietf.org>; ietf-discussion@listi.jpberlin.de <ietf-discussion@listi.jpberlin.de><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [TLS] NSA / IETF Discussion List<br>
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<div class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing">Dear Ken Kubota,</div>
<div class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing">IETF has SEAT working group. It works on TLS 1.3 extension. SEAT has
<a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fossati-seat-early-attestation/" target="_blank" data-outlook-id="0000682b-6042-4e85-8053-1c24b9898147">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fossati-seat-early-attestation/</a>.</div>
<div class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing">41 high class CVEs were filed against it:
<a href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-intra-handshake-fail/" target="_blank" data-outlook-id="1314b3b9-9217-4597-904f-2cc2c7183e61">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-intra-handshake-fail/</a></div>
<div class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing">They also provided patch to fix. The patch was never applied.</div>
<div class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing">Anyone who talks about CVEs is given "official warning" by chairs.</div>
<div class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing">Is it in scope of your mailing list
<a href="https://listi.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/ietf-discussion" target="_blank" data-outlook-id="4243325c-4d05-426a-84c7-8fac97976bed">
https://listi.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/ietf-discussion</a>?</div>
<div class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing">Thanks,</div>
<div class="ms-outlook-mobile-reference-message skipProofing">Waqas</div>
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<div class="hmail-attr">On Wed, Oct 14, 2026 at 12:14 PM Ken Kubota <ietf@kenkubota.de> wrote:</div>
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<div class="hmail-quote">For those who disagree with NSA activities at the IETF or wish to find solutions for the issues concerning the current IETF situation, you can join this mailing list:<br>
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https://listi.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/ietf-discussion<br>
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Kind regards,<br>
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Ken Kubota<br>
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____________________________________________________<br>
<br>
Ken Kubota<br>
https://doi.org/10.4444/100<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
TLS mailing list -- tls@ietf.org<br>
To unsubscribe send an email to tls-leave@ietf.org</div>
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