Hello Georges,<br><br>ad1 ) linguistic problems:<br><br>Yes, the same problem is discussed tween Direct Democrats, esperanto is a powerful tool to manage all areas.<br>I have faced misinterprations many times during my life in every language (even in my mother tongue), so I agree that if we are to stick with strictly one language it would be a problem to draw attention of more people, who do not speak with such distinct language.<br>
<br>On the other hand European Union formal languages are French and English and I stress that we should stay on that level of the information exchange for two good reasons:<br><br>a) Most of the printed paper or electronically accesible info that stem from official channnels of the EU is written in one or the other or both languages at best.<br>
b) Majority of the members of the EL Has good command of the English or French languages already, and if we all decide to switch to esperanto it will slow us or can overwhelm the whole process right from the start, since the problems with misinterpretation remain as in other language.<br>
<br>The translational problem we could minimize through good preparation for every common event.<br><br>I can agree that people speaking different languages are in advantage with getting the posts, but are we here just for getting posts or to help people in their lives? We should answer that each for herself/himself first. I am social person so I have many friends and comrades, but I have met in my life only 2 persons speaking esperanto on a good level of command. I am not against esperanto, the advantages of that language are pretty obvious and one of them you do not mention is that almost none of our political opponents speaks that language :-))<br>
<br>So I do not underestimate that matter in respect for broader channel of communication.<br><br>ad2)<br><br>that's what I have tried to point at previously. Right-wingers are united (on an unethical base), very well educated therefore ahead of the majority so they feel they have the natural right to lead society as an elite (they feel it).<br>
<br>Left parties are not united as far as I can see all over Europe nor they are keen to cooperate on the concepts they have in common! Thus this would be the first step for the new subject to work with left parties and build the solid ground for unification at the basic points of political discourse. That is what I have on my mind, when I wrote about bureau in my capital. Although it would be very uneasy task to talk to every official body from every left party on the national base for such team, it can help to start the communication between people which I see crucial for succession in political combat.<br>
<br>What Georges proposed should be a good start, let us try with MP's and we shall see the outcome, I suggest each of us should contact the nearest MP with plea to start the cooperation between HQs of the left parties he/she knows well. At least it will not be a waste of time to get to know better the opinions of your nearest MP :-)).<br>
<br>I would be very careful to go militant. This is always weaker side to combat poiticaly "in the streets". Although the time is running fast we should be patient and working towards success in non-militant way. Trade unions are not very good space for leftists since they have their own interests that are not the same as ours.<br>
<br>with best regards<br><br>Jan<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2009/5/6 Georges SOSSOIS <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:george.sossois@compaqnet.be">george.sossois@compaqnet.be</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">1</font></div>
<div>There is a strong need between intellectuals to have a proper left party.
Yes but not only for them ! We should recruit in all the classes but not
everybody</div>
<div>knows English enough to express their ideas. </div>
<div>There ought to be other linguistic channels and amongst these,
esperanto. That language was used by the left before the war but forbidden
by Salazar to begin with, then Hitler and Stalin. It was of course easier
to learn and more efficient than any other ethnic language (it has no
grammatical exception, amongst other qualities). That was an accessible tool for
the working class.</div>
<div>If we use a multilanguage channel we'll have to face translation problems.
And during congresses interpretation problems.</div>
<div>It would therefore cost less if all the militants were learning the
interlanguage. Faster learnt, faster used and a tool with nuances.</div>
<div>Try the free course from your native language : <a href="http://www.kurso.com.br/bazo/index.php?fr" target="_blank">http://www.kurso.com.br/bazo/index.php?fr</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">I am trying to introduce it in the trade unions and
the social forums. It is not easy. Basis militants do agree but people at
the top not very often.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">When you know that many of them have acquired their
high posts not because of any trade-unionist, political or
technical expertise but simply because they could speak languages, there
must be something wrong.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Since 1946, the US Council and
foundations allied to the british Council have been paying large sums
for the spreading of English.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"><i>As Margaret Thatcher said " In the 21st
century, the dominant power is America, the dominant language is English
and the dominant economic model </i></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="FR-BE"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><i> <font size="2" face="Arial">is the
anglo-saxon one."</font></i></font></span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="FR-BE"><i></i></span> </p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="FR-BE">The
linguistic field should not be excluded from our debates. If it is, this would
open another classification within the working class.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="FR-BE">Job
announcements of the Commission or the Parliament<i> </i>reflect
this <i>" native speaker of English only"</i> <i>. </i>Please, do
think about it !</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="FR-BE"></span> </p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="FR-BE">2</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="FR-BE"></span> </p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="FR-BE">More and
more people are shocked by what is happening. But they do not know who to vote
for. Left wing parties are divided.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="FR-BE"> </span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="FR-BE"></span> </p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="FR-BE">The idea of
establishing an official Bureau in each nation would make things
clearer. The word "communist" still, repels them but not "The left" or the
"United Left".</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="FR-BE">The fact
that it has Euro MP's wouild be, I think, a very good sign where to go. In my
country, the different groups of the left are not mentally able
to</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="FR-BE">join in
common lists. So we have not any MP in the regions or nationally. I observe
that legislative powers limitate the treshold level to have at least
one.</span></p>
<p style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="FR-BE">At least in
France and in Belgium. </span></p><span lang="FR-BE"></span></font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"><span lang="FR-BE"></span></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">In the French speaking part, you would
need at least 11.11% (9 seats) for the European
Parliament, and in the Flemish part (14 s), workers tend to vote for
the Far right. A far right that promise everything and its contrary.
</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">There I agree with <a title="slemenda@gmail.com" href="mailto:slemenda@gmail.com" target="_blank"><font color="#000000">Jan ©lemenda</font></a>
. It is essential. Trade-Union leaders complain there is not enough
militancy but they do not open speces for that.</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Or they want to check/control it. Is a trade-union
a social insurance or a social hospital ? </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Would the leaders of the European Left find that
they have enough militants ? </font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Yours</font></div>
<div><font size="2" face="Arial">Georges </font></div><font color="#888888">
</font><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"><div><div></div><div class="h5">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">
<b>From:</b>
<a title="slemenda@gmail.com" href="mailto:slemenda@gmail.com" target="_blank">Jan ©lemenda</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a title="udeike@web.de" href="mailto:udeike@web.de" target="_blank">Ulrich Deike</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="individual-members-el@listi.jpberlin.de" href="mailto:individual-members-el@listi.jpberlin.de" target="_blank">individual-members-el@listi.jpberlin.de</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 04, 2009 9:13 AM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Individual-members-EL] new
working group</div>
<div><br></div>Dear Uli,<br><br>I have proposed simillar activities between
members of the EL incl. individual members 2 years ago in Gosau. <br>I can
hardly understand, why neigboring nations do not cooperate more closely. I
have difiiculties to speak German, but no problem with English, French or
Russian. <br><br>As a sole member in residing in Prague I can offer official
Bureau in Prague and voluntarily working for the EL.<br>But there is not even
slightest attempt to cooperate on an international basis.<br><br>As economical
downturn deepens I feel this should have been prepared already to take proper
measures.<br><br>Sorry to be so sceptical, but I am still keeping my
enthusiasm afloat.<br><br>I can do a lot, but lets get together and decide
what could be done first.<br><br>If we need a new Pan-European party dependent
on the EL or not I can establish its Bureau here and make it official legally
here.<br><br>We will only need 1000 of supporters in Czech republic which is
not very easy task, but realistic perspective for a year of the very hard work
to be done to do so. <br><br>There is a strong need between intellectuals to
have a proper left party, which is missing here. Let us fill this vacancy!
<br><br>yours<br>Jan<br><br><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2009/5/3 Ulrich Deike <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:udeike@web.de" target="_blank">udeike@web.de</a>></span><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Dear
friends,<br><br>how about forming an EL working group "European Party"
uniting individual members of<br>the EL that are not members of one of its
member or observer parties and therefore define<br>themselves as a
transnational group of members.<br>We would have to agree on our major goals
(in line with the manifesto and statute of the EL)<br>and elect a board and
spokesperson via email.<br><br>The big advantage: working groups are a
well-established transnational structure of the EL,<br>no conflicts with
statute etc. And I reckon we would also be entitled to have a budget and a
link<br>on the EL homepage.<br><br>One of our goals should definitely be to
foster the Europeanization of existing national parties,<br>in our case
especially of the EL.<br>Even though all of us recognize that, at the
moment, most member parties in the EL don't like<br> this, such an
opinion surely wouldn't violate the principles of a European party such as
the EL.<br><br>Other possible goals of this working
group:<br>-strengthening ties between EL-members inside and outside our
group (local partnership across borders,...)<br>-political activities like
the ones carried out by the Brussels group of indiv. members during the past
years<br>-EL membership campaigns esp. in countries with no EL member party
(some of you may of heard<br>of the flyer that Mike NAgler and I created 3
years ago for indiv. memership in Germany)<br>-internationalism beyond EU
borders<br><br>I would like to hear about your views on this
suggestion.<br><br>But I'm sure about one thing: Before asking party
officials for permission (no, cross that out)...,<br>On informing them that
we intend to found this working group we should present<br>-a text with our
political goals, a short statute linked with the EL statute<br>-a name of
our group (both agreed on by the people signing our founding document)<br>-a
list of signatories<br><br><br>Cheers<br><br><br>Uli<br><br><br><br>>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<br>> Von: "pablo sanchez centellas"
<<a href="mailto:superpablo3@hotmail.com" target="_blank">superpablo3@hotmail.com</a>><br>>
Gesendet: 03.05.09 19:51:06<br>> An: <<a href="mailto:individual-members-el@listi.jpberlin.de" target="_blank">individual-members-el@listi.jpberlin.de</a>><br>>
Betreff: Re: [Individual-members-EL] EL Individual
Members<br><br> Sorry about cross posting... This did not go to the
list!<br>><br>> Pablo,<br>><br>> I hope my message also goes to
the EL discussion list!<br>><br>> In terms of the lineage of the
various left 'projects' in this<br>> country, the CPB (the main backer of
No2EU) was never part of the<br>> Socialist Alliance or Respect. Invited
to join both but always<br>> declined.<br>><br>> The other party,
the Socialist Party, was part of the Socialist<br>> Alliance, but not
Respect.<br>><br>> I was hoping to point out that this isn't just
Socialist Alliance/<br>> Respect/No2EU but actually something far
worse!<br>><br>> My main fear is that people in Europe will see CPB
and trade union<br>> involvement in No2EU and therefore regard it as a
positive development.<br>> Many in Europe (such as the PRC)
welcomed Respect's arrival onto the<br>> scene and ignored all the
negative aspects of its programme etc.<br>><br>> all
best,<br>><br>> andrew<br>><br>> On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 6:37 PM,
pablo sanchez centellas <superpablo3@<br>> <a href="http://hotmail.com" target="_blank">hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>><br>> Hi,<br>><br>> I meant the same millieu of
people, sorry for not being clear. The<br>> Socialist Alliance went into
RESPECT (which I thought it was a sad<br>> move) and now most of those
who created it are in this coalition. (I<br>> should have made this
clear).<br>><br>> It is clear that the only elections were the British
left has a<br>> change of getting something elected (as the Greens have
done in the<br>> past) is a missed oportunity.<br>><br>> More
important is the role of individual members. Is it too crazy to<br>>
propose an all european organisation that puts together all<br>>
individual members and then apply to join ELP.<br>><br>> Just a
thought.<br>><br>> Pablo<br>> From: <a href="mailto:superpablo3@hotmail.com" target="_blank">superpablo3@hotmail.com</a><br>>
To: <a href="mailto:stephen_spence@btinternet.com" target="_blank">stephen_spence@btinternet.com</a>;
individual-members-el@listi.<br>> <a href="http://jpberlin.de" target="_blank">jpberlin.de</a><br>> Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 18:00:11
+0000<br>> Subject: Re: [Individual-members-EL] EL Individual
Members<br>><br>> Dear comrades,<br>><br>> Well, the point is
that the different parties that run for the coming<br>> European
elections do not even take individual members into account.<br>><br>>
It is a pity that there is not a website or a blog but I think that<br>>
the hard reality does not encourage people to work towards something<br>>
that you do not even know if it is going to be acknowledged.<br>> The
Cercle in Brussels has gone trhough a similar period, people do<br>>
wonder what is the point of meeting if we are a talking shop.<br>>
Apparently the italians are going together with the communist list<br>>
but I wonder how much life does Sinistra Europea does have?<br>> I am
very pessimistic about the future of the individual members, on<br>> the
other hand there have been some changes such as the depart of the<br>>
hungarian partner if the ELP had had a hungarian group of individual<br>>
members they could establish a base to the left of the current<br>>
government so there is some room for us to exist.<br>><br>> Just some
thoughts.<br>><br>> About the No2EU campaign in the UK, i think this
is the same people<br>> that tried to create RESPECT, the Socialist
Alliance, the old CPB and<br>> some trade unionists that have attempted
to build a left alternative<br>> for the last 10 years. I fear that this
will be another fiasco. The<br>> ELP should debate the situation in the
UK as far as the left is<br>> concerned.<br>><br>> I would like to
see the ELP taking more seriously both the individual<br>> members and
people who are trying to build a left alternative in<br>> difficult
conditions. I hope that after the elections they realise<br>> the need to
develop a wider base of support.<br>><br>> Yours<br>><br>>
Pablo<br>><br>> From: <a href="mailto:stephen_spence@btinternet.com" target="_blank">stephen_spence@btinternet.com</a><br>>
To: <a href="mailto:individual-members-el@listi.jpberlin.de" target="_blank">individual-members-el@listi.jpberlin.de</a><br>>
Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:27:56 +0100<br>> Subject:
[Individual-members-EL] EL Individual Members<br>><br>> Dear
Comrades,<br>><br>> I have not seen any discussion between individual
members on this<br>> list for many months.<br>><br>> In the UK
individual members still do not have any status within EL<br>> despite
asking Helmut Scholz on several occasions to ask the<br>> Executive Board
to grant observer status to our network. The network<br>> here has now
taken down its website and its blog as the lack of<br>> status within EL
has resulted in very little activity from the<br>> members we do have. So
far we have built the network up twice only to<br>> see it dwindle
again.<br>><br>> The majority of the UK Left remains anti-EU as
demonstrated by an<br>> electoral platform No to EU, Yes to
Democracy being run in the<br>> European Elections by the RMT
union, Communist Party of Britain and<br>> the Socialist Party of England
and Wales, which I certainly do not<br>> support. I am not part of the
anti-Europe left.<br>><br>> Those of us who support EU solidarity
within the Left do not have a<br>> UK party and the EL appears to have
little interest in us. I think<br>> all of us are considering what future
we have with the EL.<br>><br>> In solidarity<br>><br>> Stephen
Spence<br>> What can you do with the new Windows Live? Find out<br>>
Windows Live : Keep your life in sync. Check it
out!__________________<br>> _____________________________
Individual-members-EL Mailingliste<br>> JPBerlin - Politischer Provider
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Jan ©lemenda<br>
</div></div><p>
</p><hr>
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Mailingliste<br>JPBerlin - Politischer
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Jan ©lemenda<br>