[Individual-members-EL] new working group

[Jan Šlemenda]

Hello Georges,

ad1 ) linguistic problems:

Yes, the same problem is discussed tween Direct Democrats, esperanto is a
powerful tool to manage all areas.
I have faced misinterprations many times during my life in every language
(even in my mother tongue), so I agree that if we are to stick with strictly
one language it would be a problem to draw attention of more people, who do
not speak with such distinct language.

On the other hand European Union formal languages are French and English and
I stress that we should stay on that level of the information exchange for
two good reasons:

a) Most of the printed paper or electronically accesible info that stem from
official channnels of the EU is written in one or the other or both
languages at best.
b) Majority of the members of the EL Has good command of the English or
French languages already, and if we all decide to switch to esperanto it
will slow us or can overwhelm the whole process right from the start, since
the problems with misinterpretation remain as in other language.

The translational problem we could minimize through good preparation for
every common event.

I can agree that people speaking different languages are in advantage with
getting the posts, but are we here just for getting posts or to help people
in their lives? We should answer that each for herself/himself first. I am
social person so I have many friends and comrades, but I have met in my life
only 2 persons speaking esperanto on a good level of command. I am not
against esperanto, the advantages of that language are pretty obvious and
one of them you do not mention is that almost none of our political
opponents speaks that language :-))

So I do not underestimate that matter in respect for broader channel of
communication.

ad2)

that's what I have tried to point at previously. Right-wingers are united
(on an unethical base), very well educated therefore ahead of the majority
so they feel they have the natural right to lead society as an elite (they
feel it).

Left parties are not united as far as I can see all over Europe nor they are
keen to cooperate on the concepts they have in common! Thus this would be
the first step for the new subject to work with left parties and build the
solid ground for unification at the basic points of political discourse.
That is what I have on my mind, when I wrote about bureau in my capital.
Although it would be very uneasy task to talk to every official body from
every left party on the national base for such team, it can help to start
the communication between people which I see crucial for succession in
political combat.

What Georges proposed should be a good start, let us try with MP's and we
shall see the outcome, I suggest each of us should contact the nearest MP
with plea to start the cooperation between HQs of the left parties he/she
knows well. At least it will not be a waste of time to get to know better
the opinions of your nearest MP :-)).

I would be very careful to go militant. This is always weaker side to combat
poiticaly "in the streets". Although the time is running fast we should be
patient and working towards success in non-militant way. Trade unions are
not very good space for leftists since they have their own interests that
are not the same as ours.

with best regards

Jan


2009/5/6 Georges SOSSOIS <george.sossois at compaqnet.be>

>  1
> There is a strong need between intellectuals to have a proper left party.
> Yes but not only for them ! We should recruit in all the classes but not
> everybody
> knows English enough to express their ideas.
> There ought to be other linguistic channels and amongst these, esperanto.
> That language was used by the left before the war but forbidden by Salazar
> to begin with, then Hitler and Stalin.  It was of course easier to learn and
> more efficient than any other ethnic language (it has no grammatical
> exception, amongst other qualities). That was an accessible tool for the
> working class.
> If we use a multilanguage channel we'll have to face translation problems.
> And during congresses interpretation problems.
> It would therefore cost less if all the militants were learning the
> interlanguage. Faster learnt, faster used and a tool with nuances.
> Try the free course from your native language :
> http://www.kurso.com.br/bazo/index.php?fr
>
> I am trying to introduce it in the trade unions and the social forums. It
> is not easy. Basis militants do agree but people at the top not very often.
> When you know that many of them have acquired their high posts not because
> of any trade-unionist, political or technical expertise but simply because
> they could speak languages, there must be something wrong.
>
> Since 1946, the US Council and foundations allied to the british Council
> have been paying large sums for the spreading of English.
> *As Margaret Thatcher said " In the 21st century, the dominant power is
> America, the dominant language is English and the dominant economic model
> *
>
> * is the anglo-saxon one."*
>
> **
>
> The linguistic field should not be excluded from our debates. If it is,
> this would open another classification within the working class.
>
> Job announcements of the Commission or the Parliament* *reflect this *"
> native speaker of English only"* *. *Please, do think about it !
>
>
>
> 2
>
>
>
> More and more people are shocked by what is happening. But they do not know
> who to vote for. Left wing parties are divided.
>
>
>
>
>
> The idea of establishing an official  Bureau in each nation would make
> things clearer. The word "communist" still, repels them but not "The left"
> or the "United Left".
>
> The fact that it has Euro MP's wouild be, I think, a very good sign where
> to go. In my country, the different groups of the left are not mentally able
> to
>
> join in common lists. So we have not any MP in the regions or nationally. I
> observe that legislative powers limitate the treshold level to have at least
> one.
>
> At least in France and in Belgium.
>
> In the French speaking part, you would need    at least 11.11% (9 seats)
> for the European Parliament, and in the Flemish part (14 s), workers tend to
> vote for the Far right. A far right that promise everything and its
> contrary.
>
> There I agree with Jan Šlemenda <slemenda at gmail.com> .  It is essential.
> Trade-Union leaders complain there is not enough militancy but they do not
> open speces for that.
> Or they want to check/control it. Is a trade-union a social insurance or a
> social hospital ?
> Would the leaders of the European Left find that they have enough militants
> ?
> Yours
> Georges
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Jan Šlemenda <slemenda at gmail.com>
> *To:* Ulrich Deike <udeike at web.de>
> *Cc:* individual-members-el at listi.jpberlin.de
> *Sent:* Monday, May 04, 2009 9:13 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [Individual-members-EL] new working group
>
> Dear Uli,
>
> I have proposed simillar activities between members of the EL incl.
> individual members 2 years ago in Gosau.
> I can hardly understand, why neigboring nations do not cooperate more
> closely. I have difiiculties to speak German, but no problem with English,
> French or Russian.
>
> As a sole member in residing in Prague I can offer official Bureau in
> Prague and voluntarily working for the EL.
> But there is not even slightest attempt to cooperate on an international
> basis.
>
> As economical downturn deepens I feel this should have been prepared
> already to take proper measures.
>
> Sorry to be so sceptical, but I am still keeping my enthusiasm afloat.
>
> I can do a lot, but lets get together and decide what could be done first.
>
> If we need a new Pan-European party dependent on the EL or not I can
> establish its Bureau here and make it official legally here.
>
> We will only need 1000 of supporters in Czech republic which is not very
> easy task, but realistic perspective for a year of the very hard work to be
> done to do so.
>
> There is a strong need between intellectuals to have a proper left party,
> which is missing here. Let us fill this vacancy!
>
> yours
> Jan
>
>
>
> 2009/5/3 Ulrich Deike <udeike at web.de>
>
>> Dear friends,
>>
>> how about forming an EL working group "European Party" uniting individual
>> members of
>> the EL that are not members of one of its member or observer parties and
>> therefore define
>> themselves as a transnational group of members.
>> We would have to agree on our major goals (in line with the manifesto and
>> statute of the EL)
>> and elect a board and spokesperson via email.
>>
>> The big advantage: working groups are a well-established transnational
>> structure of the EL,
>> no conflicts with statute etc. And I reckon we would also be entitled to
>> have a budget and a link
>> on the EL homepage.
>>
>> One of our goals should definitely be to foster the Europeanization of
>> existing national parties,
>> in our case especially of the EL.
>> Even though all of us recognize that, at the moment, most member parties
>> in the EL don't like
>>  this, such an opinion surely wouldn't violate the principles of a
>> European party such as the EL.
>>
>> Other  possible goals of this working group:
>> -strengthening ties between EL-members inside and outside our group (local
>> partnership across borders,...)
>> -political activities like the ones carried out by the Brussels group of
>> indiv. members during the past years
>> -EL membership campaigns esp. in countries with no EL member party (some
>> of you may of heard
>> of the flyer that Mike NAgler and I created 3 years ago for indiv.
>> memership in Germany)
>> -internationalism beyond EU borders
>>
>> I would like to hear about your views on this suggestion.
>>
>> But I'm sure about one thing: Before asking party officials for permission
>> (no, cross that out)...,
>> On informing them that we intend to found this working group we should
>> present
>> -a text with our political goals, a short statute linked with the EL
>> statute
>> -a name of our group (both agreed on by the people signing our founding
>> document)
>> -a list of signatories
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>> Uli
>>
>>
>>
>> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> > Von: "pablo sanchez centellas" <superpablo3 at hotmail.com>
>> > Gesendet: 03.05.09 19:51:06
>> > An: <individual-members-el at listi.jpberlin.de>
>> > Betreff: Re: [Individual-members-EL] EL Individual Members
>>
>>  Sorry about cross posting... This did not go to the list!
>> >
>> > Pablo,
>> >
>> > I hope my message also goes to the EL discussion list!
>> >
>> > In terms of the lineage of the various left 'projects' in this
>> > country, the CPB (the main backer of No2EU) was never part of the
>> > Socialist Alliance or Respect. Invited to join both but always
>> > declined.
>> >
>> > The other party, the Socialist Party, was part of the Socialist
>> > Alliance, but not Respect.
>> >
>> > I was hoping to point out that this isn't just Socialist Alliance/
>> > Respect/No2EU but actually something far worse!
>> >
>> > My main fear is that people in Europe will see CPB and trade union
>> > involvement in No2EU and therefore regard it as a positive development.
>> >  Many in Europe (such as the PRC) welcomed Respect's arrival onto the
>> > scene and ignored all the negative aspects of its programme etc.
>> >
>> > all best,
>> >
>> > andrew
>> >
>> > On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 6:37 PM, pablo sanchez centellas <superpablo3@
>> > hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > I meant the same millieu of people, sorry for not being clear. The
>> > Socialist Alliance went into RESPECT (which I thought it was a sad
>> > move) and now most of those who created it are in this coalition. (I
>> > should have made this clear).
>> >
>> > It is clear that the only elections were the British left has a
>> > change of getting something elected (as the Greens have done in the
>> > past) is a missed oportunity.
>> >
>> > More important is the role of individual members. Is it too crazy to
>> > propose an all european organisation that puts together all
>> > individual members and then apply to join ELP.
>> >
>> > Just a thought.
>> >
>> > Pablo
>> > From: superpablo3 at hotmail.com
>> > To: stephen_spence at btinternet.com; individual-members-el at listi.
>> > jpberlin.de
>> > Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 18:00:11 +0000
>> > Subject: Re: [Individual-members-EL] EL Individual Members
>> >
>> > Dear comrades,
>> >
>> > Well, the point is that the different parties that run for the coming
>> > European elections do not even take individual members into account.
>> >
>> > It is a pity that there is not a website or a blog but I think that
>> > the hard reality does not encourage people to work towards something
>> > that you do not even know if it is going to be acknowledged.
>> > The Cercle in Brussels has gone trhough a similar period, people do
>> > wonder what is the point of meeting if we are a talking shop.
>> > Apparently the italians are going together with the communist list
>> > but I wonder how much life does Sinistra Europea does have?
>> > I am very pessimistic about the future of the individual members, on
>> > the other hand there have been some changes such as the depart of the
>> > hungarian partner if the ELP had had a hungarian group of individual
>> > members they could establish a base to the left of the current
>> > government so there is some room for us to exist.
>> >
>> > Just some thoughts.
>> >
>> > About the No2EU campaign in the UK, i think this is the same people
>> > that tried to create RESPECT, the Socialist Alliance, the old CPB and
>> > some trade unionists that have attempted to build a left alternative
>> > for the last 10 years. I fear that this will be another fiasco. The
>> > ELP should debate the situation in the UK as far as the left is
>> > concerned.
>> >
>> > I would like to see the ELP taking more seriously both the individual
>> > members and people who are trying to build a left alternative in
>> > difficult conditions. I hope that after the elections they realise
>> > the need to develop a wider base of support.
>> >
>> > Yours
>> >
>> > Pablo
>> >
>> > From: stephen_spence at btinternet.com
>> > To: individual-members-el at listi.jpberlin.de
>> > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:27:56 +0100
>> > Subject: [Individual-members-EL] EL Individual Members
>> >
>> > Dear Comrades,
>> >
>> > I have not seen any discussion between individual members on this
>> > list for many months.
>> >
>> > In the UK individual members still do not have any status within EL
>> > despite asking Helmut Scholz on several occasions to ask the
>> > Executive Board to grant observer status to our network. The network
>> > here has now taken down its website and its blog as the lack of
>> > status within EL has resulted in very little activity from the
>> > members we do have. So far we have built the network up twice only to
>> > see it dwindle again.
>> >
>> > The majority of the UK Left remains anti-EU as demonstrated by an
>> > electoral platform  No to EU, Yes to Democracy  being run in the
>> > European Elections by the RMT union, Communist Party of Britain and
>> > the Socialist Party of England and Wales, which I certainly do not
>> > support. I am not part of the anti-Europe left.
>> >
>> > Those of us who support EU solidarity within the Left do not have a
>> > UK party and the EL appears to have little interest in us. I think
>> > all of us are considering what future we have with the EL.
>> >
>> > In solidarity
>> >
>> > Stephen Spence
>> > What can you do with the new Windows Live? Find out
>> > Windows Live : Keep your life in sync. Check it out!__________________
>> > _____________________________ Individual-members-EL Mailingliste
>> > JPBerlin - Politischer Provider Individual-members-EL at listi.jpberlin.
>> >
>> > de https://listi.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/individual-members-el
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Jan Šlemenda
>
> ------------------------------
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-- 
Jan Šlemenda
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