[Individual-members-EL] EL
Francis King
francis at socialisthistorysociety.co.uk
Fri Feb 8 00:24:18 CET 2008
Hi all
Representation on boards should not really be an issue at the moment for
individual members - there are too few of us. That is something for the
future, if individual membership increases and we become an important
grouping within the party. In the meantime, we need to find structures
in which individual EL members can take part in the organisation both
within and across state boundaries. Otherwise, we can be quite sure that
individual membership will not increase, as there will be no point in
joining.
Cheers
Francis
В Чтв, 07/02/2008 в 23:30 +0100, sigfrido ramirez пишет:
> Dear Mike,
>
>
>
> As far as I know Sinistra Europea is just observer, and therefore,
> without seats at the board, meaning they have not full membership to
> introduce any point in the agenda.
>
>
>
> I agree that it would have been better to organise at a transnational
> level but things like the language and the fact that politics is still
> national have concluded in this way. I think that the question has
> been already decided de facto, we like it or not.
>
>
>
> About their strategy, it seems by political reasons impossible to take
> it back as they are the most numerous and Rifondazione has been, with
> the Germans, the real drivers of the EL.. To my mind with the creation
> of the new Sinistra Arcoballeno pushed forward by the new Italian
> electoral system to amalgamate into coalitions, it maybe that Sinistra
> Europea could become less important that it was for Rifondazione unitl
> now, which was nothing else than create a kind of Izquierda Unida,
> like in the past created several left-wing parties and individuals
> under the leadership of the Spanish Communist Party. An additional
> element of reflection is that this “Rainbow left” will include the
> Italian greens, members of the European Green Party. So, things are
> complicated but the question is the same: the red-green alliance seems
> part of the political agenda in many places, including in Spain where
> IU has been severely divided about this issue, to the point that the
> Parlamentary Group was made with the Catalan Iniciativa per
> Catalunya-Verts who used to be the Catalan section of IU until they
> took a Green turn ( now members of the European Greens). IU created
> its own Catalan section, EUiA, which now is associated with Iniciativa
> in the Catalan Government and has become itself part of the EL, like
> the Spanish Communist Party and IU. Sorry for being long, but this
> could explain some apparent absurdities of the representation of
> Spanish politics in the EL (three parties when in principle it should
> not be than just one as all the three are part of IU….).
>
>
>
> The alternative for us is that we try to organise a working group of
> individual members like the others existing for trade unionists and
> the like. We are thinking about suggesting the creation of a wg on big
> cities and the EL. Maybe here we could also meet some of us if the
> proposal is going forward.
>
>
>
> In any case an intranet or forum could be useful to have a more
> coordinated and systematic interaction. This could be just a web page
> where we can post messages and the like. I think that this can be
> requested to the the Board to put some means to coordinate the EL
> individual members. An example for Spain is the following place which
> have a forum with intranet, but helas, we cannot have access…..but at
> least you can see the public part of it.
>
>
>
> http://www.nodo50.org/foroiu/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=183677f63362b6614da972dc05ddac7a
>
>
>
> Best
>
> S
>
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: individual-members-el-bounces at listi.jpberlin.de
> [mailto:individual-members-el-bounces at listi.jpberlin.de] En nombre de
> Mike Nagler
> Enviado el: jueves, 07 de febrero de 2008 22:55
> Para: individual-members-el at listi.jpberlin.de
> Asunto: Re: [Individual-members-EL] EL
>
>
>
> Yes the "observer-status" of "sinistra europea" as a "national
> organisation" is a step i dont find useful cause its now only like one
> more national italian party. So the way the italians go is a step
> backwards if we focus at an united european party. At the other hand
> the italian "indiv. members" so have two seats at the board. So they
> can use them to bring on the interests of the individuals - for
> example to change the statute.
>
>
> So Sigfrido, what is the strategy of the italians?
>
>
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: sigfrido ramirez
>
>
> To: 'Steve Spence' ; individual-members-el at listi.jpberlin.de
>
>
> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:50 PM
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Individual-members-EL] EL
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
> I was in the first meeting of the EL Secretariat in Brussels,
> also around 2002.
>
>
>
> For six years I have also worked to build a network of
> individual members in Brussels.
>
>
>
> I understand all frustrations which all we share. But let me
> tell you that the responsible for this is not the office (the
> administration) but the Bureau. I agree with Stephen point
> about Helmut Scholtz. But he and the Bureau has to be sensible
> about the fact that people like us can start quitting the EL
> if this keeps in this way. This has already happened in our
> circle with people of great militant quality.
>
>
>
> Maybe the expectation of the European Elections can start
> making things moving quickly to present EL lists all over
> Europe. But this is the problem of a party working with
> unanimity rules and not majority. These are contradictions
> which takes time to be solved.
>
>
>
> Indeed, everybody could talk with everybody but not in the
> “absence of structure”, because there seems to be some
> structures already.
>
>
>
> But let me be clear about one political fact. The only
> collective of individual members with representation is
> Sinistra Europea in Italy, which is about 90% or more of all
> individual members. They are already accepted as observers and
> have their structures. Therefore, the decision to be organised
> in national chapters is already taken. Steven has already
> requested the same on behalf of the other individual members.
> We are thinking about doing the same in Brussels.
>
>
>
> Therefore the structures, even if thin exist. Now the
> question at stake is whether these chapters could become full
> members. So, in my view this is the heart of the matter. And
> not the office’s people in Brussels.
>
>
>
> If you wish info about our activities you can check this web
> page.
> http://users.coditel.net/eberlinguerprc/sinistraeuropea.html
>
>
>
> Of course, if you are coming to Brussels, let us know.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> S
>
>
>
> I have to write also a kind a report, in English and maybe
> also in French for the new web page we are preparing to launch
> from the Circle in Brussels.
>
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: individual-members-el-bounces at listi.jpberlin.de
> [mailto:individual-members-el-bounces at listi.jpberlin.de] En
> nombre de Steve Spence
> Enviado el: jueves, 07 de febrero de 2008 20:38
> Para: individual-members-el at listi.jpberlin.de
> Asunto: [Individual-members-EL] EL
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
>
>
>
>
> I went to the Founding Congress of EL in 2002.
>
>
>
>
>
> For six years I've slowly worked to build a network of
> individual members. I was born in Northern Ireland, lived
> many years of my life in Australia, and for the last six years
> I have lived in England. I'm an internationalist not just in
> theory but in practice
>
>
>
>
>
> It has been very difficult to build individual membership in
> England. It took two years to get a membership form. We
> still cannot pay money by bank transfer from pounds to euro.
> The party organisationally has been unable to fix this. These
> are some of the frustrations Uli has. The Brussels office
> have responsiblity for individual members and they do their
> best, but that is not their only purpose and the party does
> not put time and energy into building individual membership.
>
>
>
>
>
> In Prague in Novemebr at the second congress some individual
> members got to speak for the first time. It was agreed with
> Helmut Scholz that the EB would discuss individual membership
> representation on the EB in January. I have heard nothing.
> Helmut Scholz is a good man. He is just busy with national
> party things.
>
>
>
>
>
> Again these are some of Uli's frustrations. The party has
> individual members but in reality the national parties are the
> bodies with the rights. We have few.
>
>
>
>
>
> On the question of authority. We are individual members. We
> each have our own authority. Let a thousand flowers bloom I
> say. I would like some coleective structure, that's why I've
> worked to build an English network, but the party does not
> consider the question seriously. I've asked for European Left
> England to be given observor status but I've heard nothing.
>
>
>
>
>
> In the absence of structure I think Uli is quite right to talk
> to Helmut Scholz or anyone else about anything he wants. We
> all are.
>
>
>
>
>
> This discussion is the liveliest for a while. normally this
> list is dead for months. Well done Uli , for stirring things
> up!
>
>
>
>
>
> Bestest
>
>
>
>
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
>
>
> ps i hope to write my english report this weekend, last was
> wiped out.
>
>
>
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