From ietf at kenkubota.de Thu Oct 15 02:22:02 2026 From: ietf at kenkubota.de (Ken Kubota) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2026 02:22:02 +0200 Subject: [IETF Discussion] [TLS] NSA / IETF Discussion List In-Reply-To: References: <0FD7B0E3-674D-45BA-88EF-5909D241442F@kenkubota.de> Message-ID: My responses are provided in line with the quoted text below. > Am 14.10.2026 um 16:02 schrieb Jan Schaumann : > > Ken Kubota wrote: >> For those who disagree with NSA activities at the IETF or wish to find solutions for the issues concerning the current IETF situation, you can join this mailing list: >> >> https://listi.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/ietf-discussion > > This list is not hosted by the IETF, so could you > clarify what the scope and affiliation is? The scope was intentionally kept open to encourage people to join and contribute their ideas, wishes, and visions for the future. Although the NSA's current activities at the IETF (NSA's SIGINT Enabling Project [1]) were the catalyst for creating this mailing list, numerous other issues within the IETF remain unaddressed. A significant discrepancy exists between the IETF's stated principles and its actual practices. The internet, and hence the IETF, should serve the end user, as outlined in an RFC [2]. In reality, however, the IETF appears to serve large U.S. companies whose interests mirror those of the NSA, such as by erroneously asserting a "rough consensus" [3] at the TLS Working Group in a decision which effectively weakens internet encryption (Professor Bernstein: "But there wasn't consensus; not even close. There also wasn't "rough consensus"." [4]). The leading German computer magazine already published an article concerning the issue of whether the "IETF standardization [is] easy to hijack". [5] In my opinion, the answer is clearly yes, and moreover, it is evident to me that the IETF (or the IETF decision-making process) as a whole has been compromised/hijacked. [6] Please also read the "Background" links at the mailing list website for more information. The internet, and consequently internet standardization organisations, should serve rather the end user than large companies, and in a multipolar world, the equality of peoples, and the equality of languages, should be envisioned instead of U.S. primacy / hegemony. China, Russia, and India, and their languages, should play a larger role. Bitcoin (or other means of decentralized payment methods) bypassing central banking is important, but seems to have no place in the IETF. Although the IETF once undoubtedly delivered valuable outcomes, it has unfortunately become a liability. Overall, the prevailing sentiment is that certain organizations operate more as gatekeepers than enablers. Another purpose of the new mailing list is to bypass IETF censorship, as discussed further below. The new mailing list is a private initiative, which means that there is no affiliation. However, this doesn't exclude the possibility that from the new mailing list's activity something new will arise, might it be an informal structure or an official organization. Of course, compliance with privacy laws will be ensured; no data will be passed on to third parties (including a potential future legal entity) without explicit permission or legal requirement. On the mailing list website it is clearly announced that mails are available publicly at the mailing list archive (similar to IETF standards). > I.e., shouldn't discussions about the IETF happen on > IETF lists? Ideally, this would be the case. However, there is a significant discrepancy between what the IETF promises and what it actually does. Professor Bernstein has made this explicit in the case of the SSH Working Group chaired by Stephen Farrell and another person: "1. What IETF promises" vs. "2. Chairs sabotaging participation" or "3. Chairs sabotaging resolution of technical disputes" [7]: "issuing continual threats of censorship, presumably scaring many WG participants into silence" [7]. In my opinion, the same holds for the TLS Working Group ("The claim of a "rough consensus" was made by a WG Chair composed of three members. One of the TLS WG chairs works for an NSA-related company, while another one works for a CIA-funded company.") [3]. Nobel laureate Paul Romer already mentioned that the TLS group discussion is dysfunctional, and people "seem to be afraid to speak up about the mistakes": "I share the concern that many members voice: the group discussion is dysfunctional." [8] "The deep problem is the missing messages. People seem to be afraid to speak up about the mistakes." [9] Moreover, there is a tendency at the IETF towards total censorship, as Professor Bernstein pointed out: "2025.10.05: MODPOD: The collapse of IETF's protections for dissent. #ietf #objections #censorship #hybrids" [10], see also [11]. In an absurd decision, the TLS WG has "decided to moderate the postings of D. J. Bernstein" [12], whose Curve25519 (X25519 [13]) probably runs 90% of today's internet worldwide [14]. In my case, former NSA lifetime employee Deb Cooley has pleaded for removing my publishing rights [15], based on a request by John Mattsson from Ericsson (Swedish Wallenberg family). "They have to firmly align themselves with the Washington agenda in order to keep Ericsson and Saab profitable." [16] The Orwellian state of affairs couldn't be more obvious. Any discussion of the conflict of interest is framed as and blocked as "personal attack." Please direct further questions to the new mailing list, as it is an evolving process where everybody may participate freely. I also would like to note upfront that answers from my side may take a while. Kind regards, Ken Kubota ____________________________________________________ Ken Kubota https://doi.org/10.4444/100 [1] https://nsa.2026.action.cr.yp.to [2] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/UDvPmpd0jIpcFkLgoZZSWlcH6Ok/ [3] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/BY9FNfpBWerhoAJTZifoaqm56Ic/ [4] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/YuPYdAeSRJkSkfPZsVxGtbLwAb4/ [5] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/G8dyTRb7FXPW8SdztOORvwBFqFQ/ [6] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/FsbYnIjnGGX4Eek5DuUiZpc3cBI/ [7] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ssh/KwzbhHP-6cK4VSWT04mNv_cWyFI/ [8] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/7k-EAYb8jn3kt_O8ASunTXXl5gw/ [9] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/ZbbelZMerxUU8KRNZHSK7mfHomc/ [10] https://blog.cr.yp.to/20251005-modpod.html [11] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/XBFEJKSfsKCCR5Xeh-PjtwcdA9U/ [12] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/V67wl1pWaPg40S6ABfBHuwc0oXM/ [13] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cfrg/-9LEdnzVrE5RORux3Oo_oDDRksU/ [14] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/g9GKfUq4ku5F4anmHk9aS7XGu6c/ (no endorsement of other parts of the email) [15] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ssh/GPVoqmoUEaYoynxfAOpl65-jZYA/ [16] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/XBFEJKSfsKCCR5Xeh-PjtwcdA9U/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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