[fyeg_gen-l] Understanding European Governance ? - in context of Tobin Tax (Dante-Gabryell Monson)

Lívia Magdošková magdoskova at yahoo.com
Sat Jul 2 09:46:04 CEST 2011


hmm
 
yea , it looks like that in the current global situation, where threatens 
from all around in terms of unrest, riots, bloody conflicts further
crises prdispositions- economic, financial, food ad water, environmental and climate, ..
the EU seems to be creating, or try for one bloc in protection to outer area-
actually it was created as that-economic union , because the resources
in the one country were not sufficient for its planned development, so the
favourable (in many cases inevitable because of lack of political, military and economic power)
was the cooperation ad mutual help, but at the expense of sovereignty and autonomy.
 
council ..yes, you re right, the only what we can give the eu -as we are already in- is to give our trust that 
those not directly elected but some by national-governments supported (howmany percentage
of the citizens are satisfied with governments and national situation?..) will manage
this big mechanism in favour of the most, ..the all ehm people,..manage our daily life..
 
how do they do ? by means of taxes...
the new budget for next 7y-period is discussed to give again burden on its citizens by another taxes.
we are paying already percentage of VAT to the national budget from which that sum
goes to the EU budget.. 
-like we can see that some country tries to compete in quantitative gdp growth, but when it is not possible to manage its own economy (either policy) and sustain its balanced development, it has economic indeficiencies and debts -and the band of countries with idea of common currency (attractive as a phenomenon on financial markets and when suffieciently strong, act as s great player and offering profits (but of course there also many other advantageous))  welcome such country in the band (eurozone), and then when the flow of money
goes obviously just in one direction and enangered the others , the answer again offer taxes
of the citizens and uncontrolled continuency in one-way financial flow without desirable feedback..but that
is the solidarity and when the system stands on such principles it stands -all players have to continue 
in these rules so as not to end the game..  
 
yea- EU , we talked about that ´big travelling and discussiing´ association supported by some fraction
of citizens learnt that voting is the manifestation of democracy  - good paid activity, the real effect is 
easy to overlook
 
 
tobin tax? now they call for the tobin tax when it is already found out that there are much proffessional ways? tobin tax is good idea but just currency transaction taxation doesnt
solve anything just can make more harm tha use . They raise this option
to explain away the more elaborated and agreed, by many economists, taxation forms as e.g. robin hood taxation-
that is accomodated to secure the flow of revenue to the areas as fight against climate change impacts,
improve of public services and eradication of poverty...of course also this brings some 
snags- but it is just a question of right adjustment and calculations to avoid unforeseenable obstacles.
are we afraid that there will be less traded volume on the market? this should discourage us?
this is what we need, to stop over-trade on financial markets and speculative shifts of any items.
the only sense of the markets is shifting shifting and when we shift at the right time we have more to shift,
if at bad calculated time we get heart attacks..the taxation should be adjust sensitively 
to distinguish possible speculation transactions, should secure the ceiling of yield- e.g.
i am teacher, i do my best and devote time to various educational methods, but i cannot
earn more mmoney in my area because this job is simply not valued more..but when i am broker,
i can work and i can earn unrestrected amount of money , and i am offended when someone
wanna put the ceiling or tax my reveue? they just have to reconcile with the evaluation of the job..
there is also the question of unemployment as a side-effect- unemloyment is here still and already
has risen and effected each area when some banks collapsed- because of that the money will be 
redistributed to the public areas and creation of green and development jobs, it is like structural
cycles of the economy..
also the tax has to rightly touch the bank system- as bank taxation is in many cases justified- we cannot
allow banks then to burden citizens by higher interest and similar.( consequent transformation of business banks 
to no-interest banks and alike..to give the service to the people and not make people servants for the banks)
 
favourable taxation is aimed to lower the volume of traded items, prohibit speculation transactions,
lower interest and stop growing the unpayable debts, and redistibute the income among the
regions and areas in need (climate, poverty, poor public services) ..it is the way how to weaken
the power of the exploited financial system and open the space for other , equal, environmentally and social-
friendly economies- that would really mean rational use of resources and their distribution so as
to secure the basic needs for everyone, return the future for next generations and not stay in worthless bubble of
egoistic wealth.
     
 
nice to continue in the discussion further
enjoy the w-end! 
 
   

Bc. Lívia Magdošková
OZ Mladí Zelení/CA Young Greens 
Slovakia
magdoskova at yahoo.com
skype: uffica
+421 911 123 162
P Be environmentally friendly: please do not print this email unless it is entirely necessary


Von: Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante at ecobytes.net>
An: Maarten Lucas <maarten.luc at gmail.com>
Cc: fyeg_gen-l at listi.jpberlin.de
Gesendet: 3:29 Samstag, 2.Juli 2011 
Betreff: Re: [fyeg_gen-l] Understanding European Governance ? - in context of Tobin Tax (Dante-Gabryell Monson)


Thanks Maarten for these clarifications. 

By the way, recent developments :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/29/ec-proposes-tobin-style-taxes

What looks more and more to me as a "Eu Government" wants more autonomy from/over(?) its treaty member nation states what concerns its funding - in effect, creating a supranational state... ?

With apparently no direct elections what concerns the councilium of the EU and the Commission of the EU 
- who seem to have the power to initiate "Treaty of Lisbon" EU wide laws / directives - , 

and a rather weak elected EU parliament ,
 - with a weak legitimacy ? less then 50 percent of the population in age of voting participating in EU Parliament elections ? -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/29/ec-proposes-tobin-style-taxes

EU calls for 'Tobin' tax in a move to raise direct revenue
European commission unveils trillion-euro budget plan and wants bigger share of its spending to come from tax revenue or other levies that go automatically to Brussels


On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 7:12 PM, Maarten Lucas <maarten.luc at gmail.com> wrote:

Hello

What the Belgian situation concerns, I can tell as a Belgian that it may be
 possible the tax will be granted. At the moment, we have a real Parlementary democracy and we vote on bills with a majority of seats, regardless of who's in power in the goverment. So, for example, there probably will be a new pensionbill passed next autumn (if there aren't new elections by then, which are also a big possibility).

But in my opinion, and also according to the majority of the seats of the federal parlement, it won't be a good idea to introduce such a tax on state-=
level. It must be on the level on the Union. Also, Belgium has a right-wing majority in seats. So because of not having a full government and therefor=
 a complete parlementary democracy, we will have loads of more right-winged bills then we're used to (the social-democrats have been in power for the =
last fifty years in a row in Belgium, so it's a real adaptation from now on). Last week a new
 bill to heavily reduce the means for migration has passe=
d the parlement, which proves this.

So frankly, I don't think Belgium will pass a Tobin Tax the next few years. Not because we don't have a full government (some things even work signifi=
cant better then with one), but because we have the wrong parties in the majority of the seats.

greetings
Maarten
Jong Groen! (Flanders/Belgium)
>
>2011/6/29 <fyeg_gen-l-request at listi.jpberlin.de>
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>>Today's Topics:
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>>  1. Understanding European Governance ? - in context of       Tobin Tax
>>     (Dante-Gabryell Monson)
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 1
>>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 17:25:42 +0200
>>From: Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson at gmail.com>
>>To: fyeg_gen-l at listi.jpberlin.de
>>Subject: [fyeg_gen-l] Understanding European Governance ? - in context
>>       of      Tobin Tax
>>Message-ID: <BANLkTimt-4e_gnhBpCT5hogxyHbispE7tA at mail.gmail.com>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>>Below, a press release<http://www.greens-efa.eu/fr/financial-transaction-tax-3348.html>showing
>>the interest from the European Parliament in relation to Financial
>>Transaction Taxation.
>>
>>//
>>
>>I wish to discuss it on the forum,
>>though at the moment it seems to be blocked !?
>>http://fyeg.org/forum/
>>
>>//
>>*
>>*
>>*further notes, on how difficult in might be to actually adopt such
>>financial transaction tax through elected representative political
>>procedures :*
>>
>>The Parliament seems, in my current understanding, to have only a limited
>>influence :
>>*a diluted power to approve or reject directives made by the European
>>Commission.*
>>
>>[image: image.png]
>>
>>( link to image - wikipedia
>>)<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:European_Union_legislative_triangle.svg>
>>
>>Based on the report below, it feels like the EU Parliament does not have the
>>power to choose the laws it wants to vote on, and which have precedent on
>>all other national and regional legislations.
>>
>>It seems to me that the combined powers of the EU Parliament and of all the
>>other National and Regional Parliaments is less then that of the European
>>Commission and the European Council.
>>
>>It seems - based on my current knowledge - that the EU Parliament, in
>>relation to proposals for directives, is merely relegated to a pressure
>>group with some kind of attention from media, towards a population which has
>>no powers to elect nor the European Commission, not the President of the
>>European Council , or more exactly the Councilium of the European
>>Union<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_the_European_Union>
>>
>>
>>The EU Parliament seems to have even less powers then the Council of the
>>European Union , as the Council seems to have the power to initiate EU law
>>itself :
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_the_European_Union
>>
>>*" In a few limited areas the Council may initiate new EU
>>law<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_European_Union> itself.
>>"*
>>
>>Hence, overall, the framework for political "democratic"
>>accountability<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accountability>seems to be
>>very limited, despite the EU Commissioners needing to be
>>approved once every few years by the European Parliament, a European
>>Parliament which itself is, at the scale of the population of the EU who
>>voted, apparently not very legitimate, considering the low voting turnout.
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Parliament_election,_2009
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_the_European_Union#Voter_behaviour
>>
>>*"In 2009, the overall turnout was just 43%"*
>>
>>-------
>>
>>http://www.greens-efa.eu/fr/financial-transaction-tax-3348.html
>>Financial transaction tax European Parliament keeps pressure on for European
>>FTT
>>
>>The European Parliament today reiterated the call for the introduction of an
>>EU-level financial transaction tax, as part of a report on innovative
>>financing adopted by MEPs. The Greens have long called for the introduction
>>of a financial transaction tax and welcomed the vote, with Green MEP *Philippe
>>Lamberts* commenting:
>>
>>
>>
>>*"The EP has kept the pressure on for the introduction of a financial
>>transaction tax at EU-level. While the ultimate goal should be to introduce
>>a global FTT, there are clear benefits for the EU to push ahead on its own.
>>MEPs have today urged the Commission to take steps to this end.*
>>
>>**
>>
>>*"The Greens have long championed the introduction of a financial
>>transaction tax both as a means of curbing harmful speculation and as a new
>>source for generating public revenue. As well as being a potentially
>>significant source of revenue at a time when national exchequers are under
>>strain, a financial transaction tax is socially just. A FTT would also
>>clearly address the systemic risk emanating from high-frequency trading,
>>acting as a disincentive for risky speculation. It is time for the
>>Commission and member states to stop stalling."*
>>
>>
>>The petition thing is the "European Citizens' Initiative" which
>>coincidentally enough was just launched today and there is even a conference
>>starting now on it!
>>
>>The Greens have also created a website (http://www.eci-greens-efa.net/) that
>>will function as a sort of hothouse/message board to allow people all over
>>Europe to get together to launch one of these initiatives.
>>
>>
>>
>>Livestream of conference now: http://www.greenmediabox.eu/live/eci/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 15:44:10 +0200
>>Subject: Re: article trends : 2 Belges sur 3 veulent taxer les transactions
>>financi?res
>>From: dante.monson at gmail.com
>>
>>
>>Unfortunately, the situation of the current Belgian "caretaker" Government
>>may not make it possible to bring forward and apply such Tobin Tax measures.
>>
>>
>>And even if it did
>>( although I would need some more expert opinion on this )
>>my current understanding is that
>>
>>the European Commission drafts directives can block or over-rule national or
>>regional decisions.
>>
>>To my current understanding, directives of the European Commission
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_law
>>
>>only need to be approved by the European Council and the European Parliament
>>- not by national governments.
>>
>>To my current understanding, it is not the european parliament which drafts
>>law proposals at a european level.
>>
>>For the European Commission to "consider" to draft or change a directive,
>>there is the "option" to make a petition converging one million
>>signatures. ( under specific conditions - percentages from each country, etc
>>)
>>
>>And even after such petition asking for writing or modifying a directive,
>>there is no obligation for the commission to follow suit on such request by
>>one million people.
>>
>>///
>>
>>European Union - Democratic ?
>>
>>
>>
>>2011/6/29 Michel strong social support for tobin tax in belgium:
>>
>>
>>
>>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>From: *Dante-Gabryell Monson* <dante.monson at gmail.com>
>>Date: 2011/6/29
>>Subject: article trends : 2 Belges sur 3 veulent taxer les transactions
>>financi?res
>>
>>
>>2 Belges sur 3 veulent taxer les transactions financi?res
>>http://trends.rnews.be/fr/economie/actualite/banque-et-finance/2-belges-sur-3-veulent-taxer-les-transactions-financieres/article-1195046610002.htm
>>
>>lundi 27 juin 2011 ? 16h58
>>
>>*67 % des Belges sont favorables ? l'introduction d'une taxe sur les
>>transactions financi?res, selon un sondage Eurobarom?tre publi? par le
>>Parlement europ?en. C?est plus que la moyenne de l?UE*
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